Culture verses Biology

Okay, there is this general shit storm about that group of underaged teenagers with too many children as part of the polygamous group. I’m avoiding most of the topic, but apparently I can’t express my opinion in a polite manner without getting my ass chewed off for not immediately saying everything they were doing was a horrible thing. I wasn’t planning on talking about this, but its bothering me a bit.

One of the things is talking about polygamy. Since they were polygamous, all people into polygamy are terrible rapists. That is one of the points that really irks me. I am polyamorous and I have been pretty much my entire sexual life. I’ve been in poly relationships and, frankly, I consider polygamy to be a viable relationship model, with certain caveats. One being the head spouse is capable of taking care of their mates, or it is a true poly relationship where everyone takes care of each other. I don’t think polygamous relationships are for the poor, to be honest, I think they are for those who are capable of being emotionally, financially, and spiritually secure enough to actually do it. However, with this stuff going on in the media, it is turning all polys into evil monsters.

Didn’t know I was an evil monster.

[quote:o52efgp5]Yes they needed their children but what kind of a mother can willingly let her baby girl be married off, raped and have to go through the pains of childbirth before she was even sixteen?[/quote:o52efgp5]

Rape is bad. That part I will never disagree with. What is getting me a bit annoyed is the “have to go through the pains of childbirth before she was even sixteen” bit. I mean, for centuries women started giving birth when they were old enough to start bleeding. It wasn’t that far back when 14 and 15 year olds were giving birth. Yes, there was a lot higher chance of death during childbirth, for the child or the parent, but they are still capable of it. However, apparently giving birth to a child when the mother is under the age of 18 or something is suddenly a torture. Just as a minor point of observation, its interesting how something we’ve done for centuries and have been capable of doing for just as long as become torture.

sigh I know too many mothers under the age of 16.

However, what I’ve heard of what happened here, that isn’t right. It is pretty much one of those definitions of evil, but I feel that any cult is in danger of those things. Power is a terrible thing to have, power over people makes evil.

I just wish people would have the ability to separate things and not made sweeping decisions based on the actions of a few power-hungry people.

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[quote author=LT link=topic=922.msg3145#msg3145 date=1209444833] Two things. First, I have never seen a case of polygamy working both ways. It is always one man and a bunch of underaged girls.[quote:1t38pusa]

I’ve seen it with consenting adults, but then again, I’m in the poly circles too. While it wasn’t legal, I know of one FMM grouping and one MMFF quad that are both stable over fifteen years, which I consider to be pretty much marriage. They live together, love together, pool their resources and raise the children together. Close enough to me.

[quote:1t38pusa]Second, while shit like this is proof enough that the attitude “if she’s old enough to bleed, she’s old enough to breed”, while that may have been the norm or acceptable in any way in the past, it is not acceptable now. Children do not have the maturity in body or mind to handle a sexual relationship. In every case of pedophilia, there is always some kind of damage, and there’s a very high probability that the victim will become a pedophile themselves. These are facts, which is why we put people who fuck children in jail. It is rape, and there is no glossing that over. [/quote:1t38pusa][/quote:1t38pusa]

The question is what is an adult and how it has changed over the years. Now, thirteen is a bit too young, mainly because it isn’t biologically safe for girls to have children. Sixteen… is getting a bit more fuzzy. In terms of biology, they are pretty safe to have children but culture wise, we’ve bumped up the age of adulthood past that point but I think some people hit an emotional adulthood before that. Unfortunately, when you are dealing with a large, established culture, you have a tendency to have least common demonitor things. So, while you may have mature 16 year olds, you also have immature 18 year old. So, the point of adulthood is pushed up to 18 to cover more of the bases. Of course, I think if you set the age at 18, then eventually the LCD will drag it out to 21 (like drinking) and then eventually 25 (like insurance).

Now, I’m not saying what this religious group did was right. Far from it, what they did was rape, brainwashing, and basically taking advantage of people. It was using religion to control people and then using the control to prey on people who can’t resist (children). Because of the sheer amount of destructiveness involved, and how hard it is to pull out specific things, people are lumping things together. That part I don’t like. Polygamous relationships aren’t entirely bad, they just take a lot of maturity and relationship skills to make work; more so than a dual. Sixteen year old girls having children is not torture, in this case it was, but not as a whole. And, I guess one of the questions is: is 16 a child? I have absolutely no argument with <= 13 being a child but once you get past that point, you start getting instances where they aren’t really a “child” anymore except in legal eyes.

And, to some degree, if you look at the history of statutory rape laws, you’ll actually see it has its foundations in property law. Which is why statutory rape requires consent on both sides. Otherwise it is just rape.