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Author Topic: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?  (Read 1873 times)

t'Sade

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Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« on: November 15, 2008, 01:26:09 PM »

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20081113/NEWS01/811130314
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/11/priest_calls_vote_for_obama_a.html

This is an interesting article, both sad in many ways, but also curious in how people will take it.

Quote
A Catholic priest in South Carolina has decided that the democratic act of casting a vote is, in some cases, a mortal sin. Therefore, he has decided that parishioners who voted for Barack Obama are not entitled to the grace of Jesus Christ through communion until they've done penance.

"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law," Rev. Jay Scott Newman wrote in a letter to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville.

The idea that who you vote for strictly determines if you committed a sin is kind of... well, confusing to me. Mainly because, I feel as some of the commenters, that allowing a war in Iraq is also a form of sin, because we are killing and sending our children to go out and kill. But, somehow its more special when its children and, as some of my coworkers say, the war in Iraq is just but abortion is never just. Fluffy's father also says the same thing, which makes some interesting conversations.

Priests have a lot of power in their community, but more so when they feel that they have to lecture again it (though he won't refuse communion, but he will lecture until everyone gives penance for voting for this murderer). Its also interesting in that Obama probably will never commit an abortion, nor does he really have that much power, but somehow his belief that it is acceptable (though even he doesn't believe in casual abortion as far as I know) makes everyone who voted for him a sin.

The part that makes me the saddest is that someone feels so strongly about the issue, and is basically telling his parishioners that they were wrong and they don't deserve communion because of it. And, when you have a religion that tells you that you need a priest to talk to god for you (at least in some ways), that is a terrible blow. My respect for McCain increased a lot with his concession speech. It was... beautiful and honorable. He is not a terrible man, but I don't like his philosophy. I don't like his position on my hot buttons. I don't like Obama's either, but I like more of Obama's than McCains. But, the idea that we should just damn one single position (abortion), over war, gays, and everything else is sad. And just the social pressure to ask for penance for doing what you think is right is... it hurts that people do this.
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 11:01:33 PM »

How can I reply to this? Hell, I might have written it.

But I woulda been a LOT meaner.
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KK

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 04:48:18 AM »

I completely agree with your position t'Sade, there is nothing more to add, except, well...

It's an abuse of power by the priest, which is really nothing new, because organized religion is essentially powerbrokering.
I do hope it makes some people think. And deicde that this religion is not for them anymore.
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t'Sade

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 10:40:47 AM »

I wouldn't say that I hope they religion isn't for them. It is a wonderful religion and brought a lot of good things to the world, its just sometimes you get what I would call bad eggs. I would hope that they would lose their parishoners about it, as they realize that specific church is no longer for them (or get a new priest for the church, which can also happen).

The problem is, is that it probably won't really change much. Most likely, they'll lose a few of them to another church (and the original priest will rant about them). Some will bitch about it, but not really do anything. Some people will ask for confession and not really mean it, which is a terrible thing in my opinion. And, some will actually believe they have commited a sin and will flee back to the bosom of their social guide (the priest) and beg forgiveness for doing what they thought was right.

It isn't the religion that is the problem, in my opinion, its the specific priests claiming it is mortal sin that are.
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Ludovico

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 11:13:22 AM »

I agree it is very sad, but that's what they had the Protestant Reformation for!

Therefore, anyone who chooses to remain a Catholic must accept these ideas. They are being offered penance, so it's their choice to accept this. The option on many protestant denominations is open to them, so if they choose to remain Catholic, they must share the ideas of the priest, or at least accept them.  

Remember in '04, when that Archbishop warned it was a sin to vote for Kerry. The Pope has been frustrated by the liberalism of U.S. Catholics for a long time.  However, those who remain Catholic must believe in enough of the ideas to do so.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 11:20:15 AM by Ludovico »
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2008, 11:49:47 AM »

"Mankind will never be truly free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
                                 — Denis Diderot
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LT

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2008, 09:41:08 PM »

That church should lose its tax-exempt status, like the church of the priest that endorsed McCain.
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warlady21

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 10:51:10 PM »

Well, I was aiming for Purgitory anyways. at least now I'll have some friends. ;D
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 11:30:50 PM »

"Heaven for climate; Hell for Society."

                   — Mark Twain
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warlady21

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2008, 11:32:19 PM »

"And Limbo For the party goers"

~me  :D
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Ludovico

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2008, 09:18:39 AM »

"And Limbo For the party goers"

~me  :D

Well, if you're going to parties where they do the limbo, you may be living too much in the past - as is the church !

I've been looking foward to going to hell to meet Gandhi and John Lennon.
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Ludovico

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 09:27:07 AM »

I wouldn't say that I hope they religion isn't for them. It is a wonderful religion and brought a lot of good things to the world, its just sometimes you get what I would call bad eggs. I would hope that they would lose their parishoners about it, as they realize that specific church is no longer for them (or get a new priest for the church, which can also happen).

The problem is, is that it probably won't really change much. Most likely, they'll lose a few of them to another church (and the original priest will rant about them). Some will bitch about it, but not really do anything. Some people will ask for confession and not really mean it, which is a terrible thing in my opinion. And, some will actually believe they have commited a sin and will flee back to the bosom of their social guide (the priest) and beg forgiveness for doing what they thought was right.

It isn't the religion that is the problem, in my opinion, its the specific priests claiming it is mortal sin that are.

After I posted my above reply I had second thoughts that it was insensitive (and ignored your point on it being just one bad egg).  I guess I really cannot understand the Catholic thing. With the enormous amount of criticism of the church in general, like encouraging members in poor countries not to use birth control, what is the reason for staying within?
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 10:24:33 AM »

As Samuel Johnson remarked upon being asked a question ... "Ignorance, madame ... pure ignorance."
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warlady21

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 07:28:00 PM »

well if we are going to hell for voting for Obama, I'll bring the chips and dip. T'sade, you bring the beers. everyone else bring a dish.

Seriously though. This country needed a change. A BIG one. Wheither it was the right move or not, doesn't matter. This election started the wheels of change that needed to be started. It will open peoples mind to many diffrent options that were otherwise left untouched. This is a Good thing. but there are a lot of people who don't aggree. I say "stuff them and forget them."
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 07:31:07 PM by warlady21 »
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Voting for Obama was a mortal sin?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 11:15:58 PM »

If I have to bring a dish, I wanna bring t'Sade.
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