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[der Wandersmann]

From THIS is TRUE:

THIS IS PROGRESS? A 10-year-old boy's pencil sharpener fell apart, and he
   kept the tiny blade that fell out so that he could continue sharpening
   his pencil. A teacher at Hilton Head Island International Baccalaureate
   Elementary School saw the blade and reported him to administrators; a
   vice principal called the sheriff to report the "crime". The responding
   deputy declared there was "no criminal intent" and refused to file
   charges, noting the boy is "a very good student who has not been in any
   previous trouble." But the school suspended the unnamed fourth-grader,
   which was "warranted" based on the boy's "inappropriate behavior in the
   classroom" for possessing the blade, insists principal Jill McAden. A
   school spokesman said the school was stuck in the "precarious position"
   between the district's zero tolerance weapons policy and common sense,
   but later noted they did away with ZT in favor of a "broader, more
   nuanced approach" to discipline. (Hilton Head Island Packet) ...Maybe
   they can call it "no tolerance" to properly characterize the
   difference.

[t'Sade]

Yeah, sadly this happened. Over on boingboing, they had a copy of the police report. It ended with the officer indicating that he thought "no harm was intented." but the boy was still suspended.

[KK]

I wonder:
How long ago was this?
Has the teacher been suspended from duty yet and the principal fired? For lack of common sense, which is the most important qualification for a teacher.

If that had happened to my kid (I dont have any, though) and over here, three things would have happened:
1. I'd have started a parent's initiative against the teacher and principal.
2. I'd have called a collegue at the Health Bureau to start investigate the teacher and principal to subpoena them for a mental health check.
3. I'd have - of course - pressed civil and criminal charges against both of them. Disciplinary charges against them are a given, of course.

Naturally, 2. and 3. work best because of my job.
But if 1. doesnt happen everywhere teachers exhibit a complete lack of common sense, then I think these places are better off by suspending the parents from their parental duties as well.

I am relieved, however, that the police responding to the case showed more common sense.

[warlady21]

Funny you should post that. An elementry school a few blocks away kicked a kid out for something silly. and it wasn't even his fault.

see, sometimes, someone would write a bombthreat on the bathroom stalls. this kid goes to the bathroom, sees the threat, and tells the principal.

He ended up getting surspened because he was the one that discovered it adn reported it. even clamed that it was his handwriting, but it wasn't according to the parents and teachers.

[der Wandersmann]

Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.

                             — Friedrich Schiller

[LT]

"Zero Tolerance" policies are a direct result of the over-litigous society that's developed over the last few decades.  Enough parents sued enough schools over stupid shit, that the school's lawyers had them all adopt these policies so the school could avoid being sued.

[warlady21]

Probably with ZT is that they dont' listen to the students side of the story. I mean, a kid  I know accedently grab their parents coat, gets to school, realizes there's a pack of cigs in the pocekt. Without taking them out, they go to the office and asks to call home because he grab the wrong coat, and there were cigs inside. He didnt' take them out as he called home, but he was still surspended for bringing them, even though he had NO INTENTION of using them and school hasn't started  yet.


Look. I am for ZT, but when kids get in trouble for an accedent, that's where parents need to sit down and TALK to the school officials. Lay out groundwork and get the kid side of the story.

[t'Sade]

I think ZT is a just way of not thinking about the problem. Instead of having to make the moral decision of what is good for the community, the school, and everything else, you can retreat into ZT and have the decision made for you. It doesn't matter if its right or wrong, you can use the ZT as a shield to not make a decision. It lets them pass the buck, instead of making a decision that can cost their job.

And that is what I have a problem with. I want my supervisors to THINK about what's going on. To make a decision they have to justify, so they are accountable and then actually consider it instead of just blindly reacting.

[warlady21]

I think it's that way because most don't want to feel guilty about making the WRONG choice. They dont' want the responibility, or just want to deal with it. Problem is, people get hurt when there was no real reason.

You know, they REALLY need to rethink this ZT thing. even though it's a quick solution, does'nt always mean it's the right one. Wonder if there's a place wher eyou can bring this up?

[KK]

Well, not thinking is ALWAYS the wrong choice.
How can we expect to raise children who will act responsible and with common sense if we act the complete opposite?

Teacher have to set an example, which means they especially have to show common sense and the ability to make sound judgments. If they dont, they're raising unthinking drones. This will come back to haunt us in a few years, because then we will have adults who never learned how to think for themselves. Even worse, they will have learned by experience, that thinking for themselves will only get them in trouble.

Personally, I think those teachers should be fired and never be hired again in a position of responsibility. They have proven to be unsuitable for their jobs.

[t'Sade]

I happen to agree, the problem is that they use ZT as a shield. "I couldn't make a different decision, the board decided we have ZT!" Its a cop-out because they don't want to rock the boat. The problem is, the ZT comes from higher up than a school. It comes from the school board who makes decisions for "the greater good" and because they know how to handle it. And because teachers who make bad decisions cause them just as much trouble, so they make the bad decision for them.

[handlebar]

In Fla. a honor student got permission to live by her self and was moving into her apartment. She had just recieved a letter of acceptence from harvard she was going to go to pre-mediacl school. When moving a BUTTER KNIFE fell out of a packing box in the back of her car. A security officer saw it and arrested her for haveing a DEADLY WEOPEN on school grounds.

[t'Sade]

I suspect that much of that decision, obviously not knowing the full story, is based on the idea that it is easier to kick it up than to decide something is not important enough. An officer will get punished/fired if he failed to report something that ends up being serious, but there is no punishment for blowing things out of proportion.

Florida is also quickly becoming one of those states I'm not planning on ever moving to or visiting unless I have to.

[necrocorpse]

Before the advent of "multiculturalism", America actually had its own culture (gasp!).  Crime back then was very low.  For the most part, kids respected their elders and local law enforcement and teachers had a lot of discretion.  Then, in the fifties or so, some elites decided that they didn't like American culture (imperfect as it was).  They saw centuries old traditions and perceived "injustice" so they forced integration upon the nation.  I was a victim of such "integration" and barely escaped with my life.  Things started going downhill fast.  Shortly thereafter (in 1964) those elites decided that they would inundate America with third-world immigrants.  They lied to the public to get their evil laws passed.  The result was a disintegration of any cultural cohesion that Americans used to have.  All of a sudden, "American" could be anything and so the term lost all meaning.  Once American society lost its culture, "common sense" also lost its meaning.  Enter "zero tolerance".

[t'Sade]

I disagree with that part. The American culture has always been a mixture of other cultures, with our own personal flavor. The entire idea of being a melting pot is perfectly fine, as long as you don't hold to any specific point in time as the One True American Way.

People don't like change. They don't like when something is different than what they are used to. I still wonder how we got from the 80's (my favorite time period) to now. Just as I stare at the kids who wear too large clothes. But, I don't think I have the right to ever say they are ruining our culture any more than my grandparents have the right to tell me the same thing. Culture, like language, is a fluid and mobile thing, changing with the ebbs and flow of history.

Zero Tolerance could be considered one attempt at trying to regain control. The entire idea of going back to the "moral" days as my grandmother used to tell me. Yeah, it could be, but it wasn't that long ago when kids brought rifles to school and most people owned or carried a knife. Is that the good old days?

Life changes, the hard part is letting it go.