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[t'Sade]

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/03/cal-state-university.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-loyaltyoath8mar08,0,6976917.story

To become a state employee in California, you have to make an oath to defend the state and country. Its one of those meaningless pieces of paper that you sign as part of your employement and something most people don't even bother reading.

In this case, a woman and a Quaker, made changes to affirm her non-violence in the oath and that got her fired. Soon after, it turned into a political storm and she was rehired, but it pointed out an interesting thing about oaths. It is a promise and some people treat it as such. On the other hand, it was an oath made mindlessly and without thought by most people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance is one of those. Every morning in school, we had to stand up, put our hand on our hearts, and made that promise. Every morning. I actually paid attention to those words, what it actually said to me. Then, one morning, I realize I couldn't make that promise and it was an empty promise for everyone in the classroom around me. It was the first time I sat down instead of saying it.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Oh, I got in a lot of trouble, but I couldn't make it in good faith. I have one true oath that I've made, and it was to my gods and ideals. But it wasn't for a flag. It wasn't for a country, it was for everyone in the world, not just one. While I felt I believed in the spirit of the pledge, I didn't believe in the letter.

And that is why I sat down.

[LT]

Actually, most people don't realize that the reason we have the option to "affirm" in the oath of office rather than having to swear to God is because of Quakers, not Atheists.  Quakers, from my understanding, consider their faith to be a personal matter (imagine that) and so it's against their beliefs to publically swear anything in his name.  I honestly don't understand why they'd have a university employee take essentially the same oath of office as say a governor or a member of the miiltary though.

I have to disagree about the pledge of allegience though.  That's actually something I felt should have continued for students up until the day they graduated from high school, and I feel it's an important aspect of immigrants becoming citizens of this country.  I definately feel that the "under God" part should be taken back out to restore it to its original form.  I just think it's affirming one's citizenship of this country.  I also had no problem taking the oath of office when I contracted as a cadet in AFROTC, it was just all part of the service.

[t'Sade]

I would be a lot more comfortable if they took out the "under God" bit. The original pledge is a lot easier for me to make. I just don't believe in "God" as I feel they wrote it.

And, if I did join ROTC or a military, I would make that pledge without question. It's kind of strange, but I think the difference is choice. Joining the military is a choice, a dedication. The pledge was a (relatively) meaningless gesture by most of the student body and a required thing that I was told to never question and just blindly do. It wasn't a choice, it was a chore.

[handlebar]

I haven't said the under god part sence I came home from the war in Viet Nam. I just move my mouth. and the reason I do that is I got called out at a football game by three young boys full of piss and blood/ Later they wern't full of much of either fluid. But the bullshit with the judge was a whole lot worse. the only thing that saved me was I turned away from them when it started to get stupid and there were three of them that jumped me from behind. So it was self defence and 50 people saw it.