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Author Topic: Should Computers Forget?  (Read 745 times)

t'Sade

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Should Computers Forget?
« on: May 10, 2007, 08:46:44 AM »

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/09/2248254
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070509-escaping-the-data-panopticon-teaching-computers-to-forget.html

This was an interesting article, about how maybe data should be "forgotten" over time. With everything going on with employers searching for past exploits, college pages, and things people did decades ago and holding it against them, it would be nice to realize that you can find forgiveness of past sins when it longer becomes important. Kind of a "statue of limitations" on public records.

It ties into my believe that people change over time. Who you were ten years ago is not who you are now and it won't be the person you will be in ten years. However, when computers remember every single thing you did, then it is harder to move past a mistake. Not unlike being stopped at a border for a DUI three decades before or finding that you can't get a credit card because you bounced a check a decade before.
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KK

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2007, 03:53:34 PM »

I disagree.

One of the reasons we have computers is to keep stored data. I also dont think the concept of "forgetting data" is really the issue. Neither is the issue whether people change over time nor is it anything related to forgiveness in my opinion.

It is simply a question about "what matters". It's not the information or availability of information but the fact that we obviously take the information we have available way too seriously. We're not losing proportions of the data but the proportions of why that data should matter.

If the data about someone doing something 30 yrs ago is available, I don't mind that. It might become important at some point for any number of perfectly harmless reasons. What I do mind is when the data is used for nonsensical conclusions, bigot statements or illegal actions.

For some reason that eludes me, the data stored in a computer about an event seems "more important" than if a human being had remembered it. Maybe this is a side effect of our developing of blind trust to computers. Computer data seems to matter more to us, so we're taking stronger measures om the grounds of that data than if it were part of our own or a collegue's experience/memory.

That leads me to the conclusion that the data storing isn't the problem, but our own perception of why that data should matter is.

For example: If a check bounced back a decade ago and that data is stored, I really don't see why that event from 10 yrs ago should matter today. I suspect that if a bank clerk would remember that fact and tell her collegue who is processing the credit card application, her collegue would dismiss it as unimportant. It simply wouldn't matter anymore. It only matters because the computer remembers. But we have to ask: Is that the computers fault or the fault of the person using the computer?

« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 04:00:46 PM by KK »
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t'Sade

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 04:40:46 PM »

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/06/risks_of_data_r.html

An article about the census here in the US. Apparently, despite the claim that they wouldn't do it, they were used to track down classes of individuals in the past. This is one of those drawbacks I feel with centralized lists.
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 04:52:43 PM »

I think they already do ... forget, that is ... I know mine does, all the time.

Oh, no, wait ... that's me.
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MariusVI

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2008, 04:30:51 PM »

Well, if computers, and the internet in general, would start to forget, this would make "using" them/it really interactive, because more like a human being...
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Anmeya

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 03:28:33 PM »

I know this is an old topic, but I'd like to put in my 2 cents.

Personally I think that it isn't an issue of "should computers forget" but rather "what should computers forget"
For instance, if my friend posts a picture of me on her blog, and it happens to be a picture of me rather intoxicated at a party, she would probably take it down on request. But the archive of that page will always be available. Or how about the time when I was in college and accidentally removed the private status on my myspace profile? Those archives are out there somewhere! I think internet archives like that should dissappear. After all, when I finish my degree I don't want someone to go to some web archive and deny my job application because they see a years-old myspace profile talking about an erotic novel I hope to publish and the fact that the child I conceived with my transsexual wife(then girlfriend) had just miscarried at 5months gestation. (these things are why said profile is friends only)

There really is no anonymity on the internet as long as indiscretions and oversights are available for all to see forever.
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KK

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 05:20:09 PM »

See, that is exactly what I disagree with:

So let's imagine someone reads or sees archived profile data of yours. It shouldn't be the issue whether that data is available, but why someone would even start the trouble of looking for it. This is the result of our computer-oriented society. The search for data for irrelevant purposes simply because it is possible has become selfpowered system. But the problem is neither the availability of the data nor the search for it, but that we actually consider the data to be of relevance.

In short:
We think simply because the data is there, it must become a factor in our decisionmaking instead of questioning its relevance for the decisionmaking.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:22:28 PM by KK »
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necrocorpse

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 10:35:39 PM »

"out of context"?  What about "in context".  We all do/say thing that we are later ashamed of.  Yet I rather agree with KK.  It is the responsibility of people to forget, or rather to put things in context.  It is people who should not take seriously a comment that was made many years ago.  It is people who need to understand people, not computers that need to understand us.  People are the masters.  Computers are the slaves.  Upon people falls the responsibility of forgetting, forgiveness and compassion.  Slaves only do as they are told.
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t'Sade

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 09:46:02 PM »

The problem is, while the average person would say "hey, that was thirty years ago, probably not the same." But, then again, look at what we pointed out to George W. Bush when he was being elected. We brought up crap from thirties years before in an attempt to point out why he would be a "horrible" choice. I'm thinking about the drinking, but even though it was three DECADES later, someone still dredged it up.

I wouldn't be surprised when we have another bout of something like McCartism (sp) going through the country and thinks you say ten, twenty, thirty years before will suddenly doom your life.

I'm big on getting things to forget. I remember an article about a woman who was registered as a sex offender in her 20's (probably with sex with a minor) and now she has to move because the local church started up a child care within 1,000 feet of her house. It was twenty years ago, but since we can remember, we choose to remember. And, as you said, everyone does something stupid in their life, but how do you get away from it if someone keeps bringing it up?
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necrocorpse

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2009, 09:46:07 PM »

The problem is, while the average person would say "hey, that was thirty years ago, probably not the same." But, then again, look at what we pointed out to George W. Bush when he was being elected. We brought up crap from thirties years before in an attempt to point out why he would be a "horrible" choice. I'm thinking about the drinking, but even though it was three DECADES later, someone still dredged it up.

I wouldn't be surprised when we have another bout of something like McCartism (sp) going through the country and thinks you say ten, twenty, thirty years before will suddenly doom your life.

I'm big on getting things to forget. I remember an article about a woman who was registered as a sex offender in her 20's (probably with sex with a minor) and now she has to move because the local church started up a child care within 1,000 feet of her house. It was twenty years ago, but since we can remember, we choose to remember. And, as you said, everyone does something stupid in their life, but how do you get away from it if someone keeps bringing it up?


It's ridiculous that that lady had to move.  She was there first so the church should be required to get HER permission before opening the child care facility or at least pay her compensation for having to move.
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t'Sade

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Re: Should Computers Forget?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2009, 06:48:28 PM »

Could be, but once a criminal, you really lose a lot of moral rights. It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong or it was thirty years ago, all that matters is an "upstanding organization in the community" and "the sex offender'.

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