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[MariusVI]

I think Ludovico means that in the work of various 18th and 19th century philosophers (as well as in the Vedic and Vedantic teachings, and certain tendencies throughout the Middle Ages, culminating in Italian Renaissance thought), the universe is understood as having begun with the divine, issueing from the divine, sometimes being divine itself - but not with, or from, or even being (in the beginning), the intelligent. The divine is evolving towards an ever more comprehensive, differentiated, and at the same time integrated intelligence - to be located, so to speak, at the end of time, and not at the beginning.

[Ludovico]

Yeah! 


The main thing is this has nothing to do with the personal, angry Thou Shalt Dude which the evangelicals prostrate themselves in front of!

[t'Sade]

Yeah, I'm lousy at disagreeing with myself, but this was a cool video on YouTube.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0</a>

[LT]

Heh, I like the part where the clocks fuck. 

[t'Sade]

Yeah, the guy who did this was really damn cool. His ideas and how he showed them, though a limited case, is really impressive. I've read quite a few things dealing with that exact thing (you can produce the needed components for life in a "soup" of raw material). I do believe that it is possible and highly likely that we can be produced from random components and natural selection.

And yet, I still believe in ID. But, the methodology that he describes it working *is* what the method that I think life evolved. A bit more complicated, but that is how I think creatures are formed. As I said, I believe in evolution and ID.

[Ludovico]

Yeah, the guy who did this was really damn cool. His ideas and how he showed them, though a limited case, is really impressive. I've read quite a few things dealing with that exact thing (you can produce the needed components for life in a "soup" of raw material). I do believe that it is possible and highly likely that we can be produced from random components and natural selection.

And yet, I still believe in ID. But, the methodology that he describes it working *is* what the method that I think life evolved. A bit more complicated, but that is how I think creatures are formed. As I said, I believe in evolution and ID.

Does the election of Obama give evidence of this?

[handlebar]

Some times it doesn't take thousands of years. There is a moth that lives in the hills above Pittsburgh it lives on and around the White bark birch trees. Before the industrial revolution and the introduction of cheap coal. To heat the homes and power the boilers that ran the machines in the plants and the power companies, there lived on the birch trees a white moth, every once in a while a black moth hatched. They stood out on the white bark and were eaten by birds. Maybe one out ot 100,000 black moths survived as birch trees have some black bark.

A decade into the Mechanical revolution, school science students who had to collect insects for science class were having a hard time finding the white moth they need to fill that spot in there class collection books. The coal smoke had turned the bark of the white Birch on the hill above the city BLACK so almost all of the white moths were now sticking out on the black bark where they were eaten by the birds . Luckily the teacher saw what had happened and wrote a scientific letter about it.