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Author Topic: Intelligent Design  (Read 4772 times)

der Wandersmann

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2008, 11:18:30 AM »

Well, yeah ... Quantum Mechanics really makes my head hurt, but the more they develop it, the closer it seems to theology. Kinda interesting. But it hurts my head.
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Ludovico

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2008, 12:14:58 PM »

Sounds like you may not be drinking enough..... ;)
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2008, 01:11:20 PM »

I been told that before ...
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MariusVI

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2008, 02:35:44 PM »


The problem is modern philosophy has been made so technical it goes beyond the comprehension of most folks. Some think no one knows what they are talking about, kinda like just a game of verbal diahrea.

To really understand the philosophy of science, you have to understand stuff like relativity and quantum mechanics.

I'm not so sure about that. You talk about the philosophy of science as if it were a single doctrine, to be understood or not. The way I see it, after having been immersed in it for quite a while (duh... about a decade), it's just a field of research and theorizing, containing lots of theories that actually do not require a lot of knowledge of quantum mechanics (insight into relativity, in a lot of different senses of the word, is less easy to leave out). The road is forking continually, and there is no one right route.

Actually contemporary philosophy rarely is really difficult. What is hard to grasp for me are the giant dream worlds of Leibniz and Hegel... Regarding contemporary philosophy: okay, the first couple of years are weird, but then it grows on you and in the end, everything is illuminated.

Sounds a bit goofy, but for me the key was language in conjunction with virtuality. Understand that, and the bulb will glow. 8)
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Ludovico

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2008, 07:50:09 AM »

Well, the only person to truly understand Hegel was Hegel. However, if you get guys like Wittenstein, my hat is off to you.

I agree the basic ideas are open to everyone. However, you underscore the main point of this discussion!!

Science is not pure empirical fact, but based on theories that become very philosophic. Therefore, any discussion of the ultimate nature of the universe must include philosophic ideas, which include Intelligent Design, and this need not have anything to do with religion, whatsoever!

Therefore, high school students should be discussing the philosophic as well as the empirical aspects of science, which does not violate separation of church and state as long as you keep religion entirely out of it.
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MariusVI

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2008, 04:34:32 PM »

Hey, I get Wittgenstein...

Gimme that hat! ;D
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LT

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2008, 02:00:58 PM »

ID is a form of religion.  It supposes that a supreme being is responsible for the creation of all things and rejects real science in the form of natural selection and evolution - things that both have basis in the emperical.  ID is the opposite of science.  Rather than seeking out the answers for ourselves, it settles for the catch-all explanation that "God did it."  It doesn't matter if the word God is used or not, when you boil it down, that's what it's all about.  As such, not only is it not science, but as it is based on religious doctrine, the government can make no law respecting the establishment of it.  In other words it has no place in public schools.  Creationism belongs in church and in Sunday school, not in real school, which is funded by the American taxpayer.  You can try to wax it over, but ID is Creationism under a different name, and as even Shakespeare said, "does a rose by any other name not smell just as sweet?"  If you choose to ignore science in favor of theology, that's fine, but don't you dare force it on anyone else by calling it "Intelligent Design", slapping the word "theory" on it, and treating it like it's real science that belongs in the classroom.  Like it or not, this is a secular country - a simple read through the Constitution should make it clear that that is what the founding fathers intended.  It was so important to them that they put it FIRST in the Bill of Rights.  It is the very first thing in the First Amendment.  These men were all religious yet they all recognized the importance of keeping the government secular.  Also like it or not, public schools belong to the government, that's why they call them "public."  They are under the perview of the Department of Education, which provides the funding for these schools so our children can get a free education.  If someone has kids and wants them to learn ID, they can pay the money and have them sent to a private school that's run by a church, or they can get curriculums from schools like Calvert School so they can home school their kid.
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MariusVI

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2008, 03:01:06 PM »

I was just about to say that ID doesn't belong in a philosophy class either.
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Ludovico

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #68 on: January 18, 2008, 09:37:46 AM »

God told me you're both wrong!  :o :o

Does that mean Hegel, Spinoza and Leibnitz don't belong in pholosophy classes?
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #69 on: January 18, 2008, 10:10:15 PM »

Of course they don't belong there ... they're dead, man.
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LT

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2008, 01:39:35 AM »

 :D
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Ludovico

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2008, 12:33:23 PM »

Of course they don't belong there ... they're dead, man.

Okay, that's blatant discrimination!  >:(

.....and don't forget about Jeremy Bentham!  ;)
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MariusVI

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2008, 03:23:54 PM »

That would be HISTORY of philosophy.

OK, I don't know much about ID... it doesn't live on my side of the ocean. But what I've heard of it doesn't sound like Spinoza, Leibniz or Hegel at all - none of these philosophers start with a divine building plan that is realized in creation, no, they see God as well as the plan developing as creation develops. I bet a lot of faithful Christians wouldn't feel comfortable at that thought.
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Ludovico

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2008, 10:20:51 AM »

That would be HISTORY of philosophy.

OK, I don't know much about ID... it doesn't live on my side of the ocean. But what I've heard of it doesn't sound like Spinoza, Leibniz or Hegel at all - none of these philosophers start with a divine building plan that is realized in creation, no, they see God as well as the plan developing as creation develops. I bet a lot of faithful Christians wouldn't feel comfortable at that thought.

That's the point....it's intelligent, not divine!

The inability to make the distinction is the problem.
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LT

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Re: Intelligent Design
« Reply #74 on: January 22, 2008, 10:41:54 PM »

There is no distinction.  ID is just a euphemism for "God created the universe as it is."
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