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Author Topic: Wikileaks and State Secrets  (Read 672 times)

t'Sade

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Wikileaks and State Secrets
« on: June 11, 2010, 07:54:59 PM »

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/state-department-anxious/
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/11/pentagon-manhunt-for.html
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/conscience/
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/08/wikileaksmanning-are.html
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/assange-newyorker/

For those paying attention, Wikileaks is this interesting site that takes a lot of data that people don't really want to be known and posts it. It appears to be a somewhat high riding site, but eventually they are going to do something that pisses off the right person and it will be shut down.

The interesting thing about Wikileaks is that they are trying to tell people what is going on. Posting operations manuals for Gitmo, an attack that killed two Reuter's reporters and how the US handled it.

Recently, one of the sources of the site appears to be a guy with top secret clearance that handed over a bunch of data over to them. He says it is based on what he saw, the crimes and brutality was too much and he gave it out to the open. I couldn't say if he is right, but the US currently has him in prison and everyone is scrambling.

I think having things like this in the clear is a good thing. There is a lot of power out there (say the ACTA, Canada's DMCA attempt that is apparently driven by the US corporations) and backroom dealings that basically screw everyone over. The general idea that my country is being run by those with money and not the people inside it has been growing and I find it frustrating. I wish I could believe that my representatives actually try to keep my interests in take, but after years of writing to them, I'm convinced they are more interesting in money from lobbyists than anything else.

So, Wikileaks is a great little site, but I just think it is going to be crushed simply because they are saying the Uncomfortable Truth™ and people with power really don't like that.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/05/wikileaks-video-of-u.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/05/wikileaks-more-backg.html

This are some leaks about that video. It ended up opening an investigation on it, much like the actions at Abu Ghraib. If they aren't brought out in the light... nothing happens. If they are, then people start paying attention. One reason I like that transparency.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,8542,1211872,00.html

Abu Ghraib pictures, for those who don't remember. It was a sad day for our army and I'm glad that many of the people doing the abuse in them have been brought to justice. Though, military justice is a lot more brutal than civilian.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 07:58:59 PM by t'Sade »
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t'Sade

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 09:48:23 PM »

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/manning-detainment/
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/19/wikileaks-a-somewhat.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html

Just more things on the entire Wikileaks stuff. Mostly about the chat logs, discussions about the guy who hasn't been charged, and generally looking at the person who "stole" those videos that made a lot of people uncomfortable.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/16/wikileaks-inspired-n.html

Interestingly, this above article talks about Iceland doing some pretty cool things about creating data havens, places people can be public about what is going on in power.

Naturally, I like open government. I like knowing what is going on, simply because if you don't have someone watching you, you do bad things. Imagine that?

Quote
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with this, though it is quickly fading from the public eye.
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t'Sade

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 12:58:53 PM »

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/12/reporters-without-bo-1.html
http://en.rsf.org/united-states-open-letter-to-wikileaks-founder-12-08-2010,38130.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/12/why-reporters-withou.html

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38130

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Home page - Americas - United States
Open letter to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange: ‘‘A bad precedent for the Internet’s future’’

Published on 12 August 2010
In the same country

6 August 2010 - FCC asked to start over the discussion between the US internet providers

23 July 2010 - "BP is orchestrating the entire operation"

7 July 2010 - US soldier charged for leaking video showing US army war crime

See country files : United States

Julian Assange
Founder
Wikileaks

Dear Mr. Assange,

Reporters Without Borders, an international press freedom organisation, regrets the incredible irresponsibility you showed when posting your article “Afghan War Diary 2004 - 2010” on the Wikileaks website on 25 July together with 92,000 leaked documents disclosing the names of Afghans who have provided information to the international military coalition that has been in Afghanistan since 2001.

Wikileaks has in the past played a useful role by making information available to the US and international public that exposed serious violations of human rights and civil liberties which the Bush administration committed in the name of its war against terror. Last April’s publication of a video of the killing of two employees of the Reuters news agency and other civilians by US military personnel in Baghdad in July 2007 was clearly in the public interest and we supported this initiative. It was a response to the Obama administration’s U-turn on implementation of the Freedom of Information Act. The White House broke its word in May 2009, when it defied a court order and refused to release photos of the mistreatment of detainees in Afghanistan and Iraq.

This is actually an interesting view of Wikileaks. On one hand, they are basically a data collector, they gather data and post it without filtering it. This does help with avoiding Confirmation Bias, but it also means they put out information that can hurt a lot of people. The current one is the complaints about giving away the names of our spies; obviously something that won't help our country in Afghanistan. In the above articles, they talk about reporters picking and choosing what to tell, using "common sense" to filter out the words.

I like Wikileaks because it told us something without those filters. It tells a very raw story about the war, something I think has been whitewashed by reporters, the government, and the press in general. What we see on the news on TV or in newspapers is polished for a specific purpose, which makes it hard to see what is going on.

As I wrote before, I think whistleblowers are an important thing. People in power need to be watched, we need someone to watch over them simply because it will be abused. When you use the government, "national security", or even "financial interest" in a company as a shield to prevent telling things that need to be done, people can get hurt. We have secrets, that part is important, but I've noticed a general trend of making too many things secret, because it is easier to relax those controls than to take something back.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/13/the-us-has-the-cyber.html
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/cyberwar-wikileaks/

Wikileaks posted an insurance file. This is a encrypted file probably with a relatively easy key (1024 or 2048) that will be released if someone nails the organization. Not that I think it could easily happen since Wikileaks is basically organized like any good terrorist (or spy) organization. A cellular network, no one actually knowing who is in charge, and (in my opinion) a puppet speaker who believes in the organization but really isn't in charge.

Now, I do think that Wikileaks shouldn't have posted the information about spies. That is probably the worse thing they could have done, but I really love that they took the risk to show this war information just as I liked seeing the other things on their site, like documentation from companies abusing the public, other governments (not just the US) hiding naughty things under the sheets, and basically airing out secrets that hurt people but they don't know it.
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luiscypher

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 07:51:44 PM »

I'm of the opinion that the folks at wikileaks should be treated as terrorists as they are aiding and abetting them.  A little napalm goes a long way...
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der Wandersmann

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 08:12:39 PM »

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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KK

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 05:30:20 PM »

Well put, Wandersmann (but I wonder how many people here speak Latin). ;)
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t'Sade

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 07:16:04 PM »

I'm of the opinion that the folks at wikileaks should be treated as terrorists as they are aiding and abetting them.  A little napalm goes a long way...

Want to explain why you say that?
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MariusVI

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 02:35:32 PM »

Well put, Wandersmann (but I wonder how many people here speak Latin). ;)

Who needs to speak Latin? Being able to read it suffices...

Next thing you'll be demanding people to sing it! :P

I'm of the opinion that the folks at wikileaks should be treated as terrorists as they are aiding and abetting them.  A little napalm goes a long way...

Luis! :) I'm completely at odds with you here, partly because it seems that napalm is seriously obsolete...

But let me ignore all that and make use of your showing up here to apologize for my being the lousiest test reader one could imagine - I can only hope you're thick-skinned enough for my silence not to demoralize you too much. Actually, your writing wasn't at fault, not at all - your way of saving it as email only was, though, particularly as your mail account didn't properly communicate the main part of the interpunction to mine. Very difficult to read stuff like that... I did struggle *sort of* through the first chapters, but found the experience to grow increasingly tedious, even though the narrative aspect of your texts would have been enough to keep me at the edge of my seat during my better years.

Ah, my better years... I'm afraid I'm no longer the perv I used to be. Summer lured me away from my screen, Apollo eclipsing the dark side of my sexuality. Meaning I'm the one most at fault, I admit, unless one still really believes in Apollo (which would be the hottest spirituality) - an obnoxious and foolhardy deity, by the way, judging from what Thomas Bulfinch writes about both his amorous and his rebellious enterprises. Putting this aside, though, I do really hope to see a subforum devoted to your prose here quite soon. 8)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 02:54:36 PM by MariusVI »
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MariusVI

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 02:55:23 PM »

(I may not be the perv I used to be, but I still can't make a decent post!) :(
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t'Sade

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 07:06:38 PM »

Info dump at the top, better stuff at the bottom.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/cablegate/
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/28/the-guardian-global.html
http://futurismic.com/2010/11/29/cablegate-the-morning-after
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/29/boing-boings-wikilea.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/30/gates-on-wikileaks-c.html

This week, Wikileaks dumped 400k diplomatic cables on the Internet and basically bounced around in the complete chaos that followed. It raised a shitstorm of complaints from people in power and got a lot of other people excited about our dirty secrets and the stuff we've been doing.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/01/wikileaks-and-the-el.html

There are some cables that really help/hurt people. The above link is about someone's plight that the cables actually pointed out that our government was wrong and tried to cover it up. Yeah, not exactly surprising but it is interesting when things like this pop up.

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One of them is Khaled El-Masri, a German citizen of Lebanese descent, and a victim of so-called "extraordinary rendition." He was a car salesman in Germany, a father of six. The CIA kidnapped him by mistake (his name sounds and looks identical to that of an actual terror suspect), and sent off to receive months of torture in Afghanistan.

When the CIA realized he was innocent, he was flown to Albania and dumped on a back road without so much as an apology.

El-Masri's futile efforts at receiving justice in the U.S. are well-known, but the cables published this week by Wikileaks include revelations the U.S. also warned German authorities not to allow a local investigation into his kidnapping and abuse.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/01/wikileaks-ousted-fro.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/01/guardian-us-politici.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-website-cables-servers-amazon
https://twitter.com/#!/wikileaks/status/10058229002272768

I find the fallout just as interesting. One of the big ones is that Wikileaks is hosted on the Amazon content system. And, people of pressure of US politicans, Amazon kicked them off. It won't stop them, but it points out that people in power really can get websites turned off with very little effort. Amazon says it is "free speech" but it really appears to be political pressure.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/assange-interpol/
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/29/us-congressman-wants.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20023941-38.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/29/wapo-wikileaks-assan.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/29/AR2010112905973.html

Of course, part of the fallout comes down to hitting the one person who everyone knows is involved with Wikileaks: Assange. There are cries for him to be tried as a traitor, a spy, what have you. He upset a lot of people because he didn't take this information and make it pretty. It dumped it out and said "look".

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/30/jack-shafer-i-love-w.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2276312/

It comes down to trust. For example, Fluffy's mom insists that the government would never make a mistake and it would always be right. She says that everyone in Gitmo was there because they were criminals, it was just a matter of proving it. I don't trust that. People in power make mistakes and they take advantage of it. You know the line: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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As WikiLeaks proved last summer, the U.S. military lied about not keeping body counts in Iraq, even though the press asked for the information a million times. Indeed, the history of scandal in America is the history of institutions and individuals routinely surpassing our darkest assumptions of their perfidy.

http://futurismic.com/2010/11/30/free-speech-or-frank-speech-a-wikileaks-counterpoint/

This is actually a very good post. It talks about how things will change in the future. Yeah, diplomatic cables will become more secret and harder to get, but in reality, nothing is going to change. Mistakes will be made, mistakes will be covered, politics will still get shoved around and people will forget that so many bad things happened.

https://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/julian-assange-and-the-computer-conspiracy-%E2%80%9Cto-destroy-this-invisible-government%E2%80%9D/#

This above link is apparently an essay Julian wrote on the topic, which partially explains his motivations. Pretty interesting read.

http://www.salon.com/technology/dan_gillmor/2010/11/29/wikileaks_a_few_questions

I'll finish up with some really good questions over at Salon.

I want more transparency. I want to know who the movers and shakers are, because I honestly don't think the common man is (or ever was) it. I want the "kimono" of politics to be yanked open and maybe people to actually pay attention to what is going on. I want the common man to be more aware of their politican's actions and to actually make them work for us, not use us as some advantage or pawn.
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t'Sade

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Re: Wikileaks and State Secrets
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2011, 07:24:05 PM »

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/wikileaks-twitter/

An interesting discussion about the repercussions about Wikileaks. A bit of history, Twitter fought for the right to tell three people that the government is looking into their records. When these three people found out, they got the ACLU and EFF involved who promptly asked the government for any other attempts to get their records.

The idea of a Grand Jury is confusing. It is one of those investigations that is suppose to decide if there is a legal case, but the information gathering during the Grand Jury (which is basically what is going on) is still usable in court and you can't do anything about it. It is illegal not to supply information and they can do it in secret.

Which is interesting in itself, but what happens when everyone knows it is happening?

Now, my fascination with Wikileaks isn't the organization itself. It is the whistle-blowing and exposing things that should be secret. I think it is still possible to be a good government and transparent, not that we get it.
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